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	<title>Comments for Auburn Sovereign Grace Fellowship</title>
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	<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog</link>
	<description>A weblog for Sovereign Grace Fellowship located in Auburn, CA</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on ASGF and Membership by Auburn Sovereign Grace Fellowship &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Two Crucial Announcements</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2006/10/10/asgf-and-membership/#comment-4512</link>
		<dc:creator>Auburn Sovereign Grace Fellowship &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Two Crucial Announcements</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2006/10/10/asgf-and-membership/#comment-4512</guid>
		<description>[...] If you want to be reminded of what membership is all about, here is the letter from the elders that we gave out a couple of months ago.  Also, I have done some posts on membership in the past if you want to read up on it- here, and here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If you want to be reminded of what membership is all about, here is the letter from the elders that we gave out a couple of months ago.  Also, I have done some posts on membership in the past if you want to read up on it- here, and here. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on ASGF Calendars by dmm</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/12/13/asgf-calendars/#comment-4413</link>
		<dc:creator>dmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/12/13/asgf-calendars/#comment-4413</guid>
		<description>These pics are amazing. Great job with the whole calendar. Very professional and impressive. These made a great gift and opportunity in the neighborhood. Thanks, Dave, Brian, Nick and Sarah!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These pics are amazing. Great job with the whole calendar. Very professional and impressive. These made a great gift and opportunity in the neighborhood. Thanks, Dave, Brian, Nick and Sarah!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Take this one to your next Grace Group by dmm</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/12/27/take-this-one-to-your-next-grace-group/#comment-4412</link>
		<dc:creator>dmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/12/27/take-this-one-to-your-next-grace-group/#comment-4412</guid>
		<description>I knew you posted about this, LOL. Seriously though, this is very difficult. How do we do anything positive without constantly second guessing our motives. I guess we must always question our motives. The challenge is to stay focused and not allow our motives to disable us from doing what we should. In other words we can not be handicapped because we are afraid we will sin in our action. We must move forward and cry to Jesus for strength and forgiveness while doing what we are commanded to do. Good challenge!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew you posted about this, LOL. Seriously though, this is very difficult. How do we do anything positive without constantly second guessing our motives. I guess we must always question our motives. The challenge is to stay focused and not allow our motives to disable us from doing what we should. In other words we can not be handicapped because we are afraid we will sin in our action. We must move forward and cry to Jesus for strength and forgiveness while doing what we are commanded to do. Good challenge!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on ASGF Calendars by Brad Hilton</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/12/13/asgf-calendars/#comment-4410</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Hilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/12/13/asgf-calendars/#comment-4410</guid>
		<description>Wow, beautiful photos.  Great jot, Brian and Sarah!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, beautiful photos.  Great jot, Brian and Sarah!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Auburn Journal Article by Bob Lesiw</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/11/16/auburn-journal-article/#comment-4404</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Lesiw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/11/16/auburn-journal-article/#comment-4404</guid>
		<description>Nice article Tim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article Tim.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Liberty and Alcohol by kevinrmartin</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4387</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinrmartin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 05:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4387</guid>
		<description>This is a fantastic link from A Souther Baptist Convention Board Member.
www. http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2006/06/conversion-to-christ-over-glass-of_14.html

Randy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a fantastic link from A Souther Baptist Convention Board Member.<br />
<a href="http://www" rel="nofollow">http://www</a>. <a href="http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2006/06/conversion-to-christ-over-glass-of_14.html" rel="nofollow">http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2006/06/conversion-to-christ-over-glass-of_14.html</a></p>
<p>Randy</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Liberty and Alcohol by Bob Lesiw</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4371</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Lesiw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 05:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4371</guid>
		<description>I found an interesting/entertaining editorial about Christian liberty and psychology written by Carl Trueman.  It can be found at the Reformation21.org website at this address: http://www.reformation21.org/Past_Issues/2007_Issues_17_27_/2007_Issues_17_27_Counterpoints/Counterpoints_February_2007/299/?vobId=5197

Here's a quote:
"The way that Christian freedom seems to be judged in some Reformed quarters by the ability to consume alcohol and tobacco is quite bizarre. Now, don’t misunderstand me here. I enjoy cheap wine, British beer, fine brandy and good Scotch; and I do not even regard smoking as a sin – stupid, yes, sinful, no. But to judge the vitality of one’s Christian faith by the consumption of these things is as silly as to judge it by abstention."

And another quote:
"This is where real Christian freedom lies: in the realization that we can do nothing to effect our own salvation; that Christ has done it all for us; and that we are therefore able to give ourselves freely and unconditionally in sacrificial service of others. The same thing, the life, death and resurrection of Christ, is what makes it possible for me to drink beer and without endangering my soul; but that is a collateral bonus of spiritual freedom and not a significant function of my spiritual maturity."

All glory to God.
-Bob Lesiw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found an interesting/entertaining editorial about Christian liberty and psychology written by Carl Trueman.  It can be found at the Reformation21.org website at this address: <a href="http://www.reformation21.org/Past_Issues/2007_Issues_17_27_/2007_Issues_17_27_Counterpoints/Counterpoints_February_2007/299/?vobId=5197" rel="nofollow">http://www.reformation21.org/Past_Issues/2007_Issues_17_27_/2007_Issues_17_27_Counterpoints/Counterpoints_February_2007/299/?vobId=5197</a></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a quote:<br />
&#8220;The way that Christian freedom seems to be judged in some Reformed quarters by the ability to consume alcohol and tobacco is quite bizarre. Now, don’t misunderstand me here. I enjoy cheap wine, British beer, fine brandy and good Scotch; and I do not even regard smoking as a sin – stupid, yes, sinful, no. But to judge the vitality of one’s Christian faith by the consumption of these things is as silly as to judge it by abstention.&#8221;</p>
<p>And another quote:<br />
&#8220;This is where real Christian freedom lies: in the realization that we can do nothing to effect our own salvation; that Christ has done it all for us; and that we are therefore able to give ourselves freely and unconditionally in sacrificial service of others. The same thing, the life, death and resurrection of Christ, is what makes it possible for me to drink beer and without endangering my soul; but that is a collateral bonus of spiritual freedom and not a significant function of my spiritual maturity.&#8221;</p>
<p>All glory to God.<br />
-Bob Lesiw</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Liberty and Alcohol by kevinrmartin</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4366</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinrmartin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4366</guid>
		<description>I kind of like this blogging thing…
Good points Tim. 
In response, you are right it is not appropriate to despise one based on another’s choice to abstain nor is it appropriate to feel prideful about having understanding in an area where others may not. I will spend some time personally considering this.

There is a time for strong words for those who choose to abstain and expect others to do the same.  When legalism enters the Church it causes pain to the Body, it is the opposite of grace.  The persons that carry the legalism in would likely also feel pain when it is identified for what it is.

I am thankful for the test this church has weathered, though not intimately aware of the pain that has been endured, because it has brought to light a central but complex continuum: legalism vs. liberty.  I am also thankful that as a result of all the discussion our body is not now encumbered by another rule.  

Let’s move on.

Randy Martin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kind of like this blogging thing…<br />
Good points Tim.<br />
In response, you are right it is not appropriate to despise one based on another’s choice to abstain nor is it appropriate to feel prideful about having understanding in an area where others may not. I will spend some time personally considering this.</p>
<p>There is a time for strong words for those who choose to abstain and expect others to do the same.  When legalism enters the Church it causes pain to the Body, it is the opposite of grace.  The persons that carry the legalism in would likely also feel pain when it is identified for what it is.</p>
<p>I am thankful for the test this church has weathered, though not intimately aware of the pain that has been endured, because it has brought to light a central but complex continuum: legalism vs. liberty.  I am also thankful that as a result of all the discussion our body is not now encumbered by another rule.  </p>
<p>Let’s move on.</p>
<p>Randy Martin</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Liberty and Alcohol by Tim Pickard</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4364</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Pickard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4364</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Randy,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thank you for your input- some good stuff- especially the C.S. Lewis quote.  I think that all of your warnings are helpful and legitimate as we look at Scripture.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here are a couple of cautions- not because I think you are falling into them but because I know the tendencies of my own heart.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In interacting with others in the body we must be careful of assuming.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First, we must be careful of assuming legalism or wrong motives on the part of those who are abstaining.  Those who abstain and have concerns about alcohol often have motives of love for others and a desire to please and honor God.  While legalism is a real danger it is not inherent in the position of abstinence.  While we know this we need to remember it lest we fall into the error of judgmentalism.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Second, we must be careful of assuming that we are somehow better than those who haven't gotten yet.  It is a fine line to walk in our hearts to hold to the truth and understand our Christan liberties even while not despising those who do not personally feel they can utilize their Christian liberties.  None of us have anything that we haven't received and all that we have received has been received because of the grace of God.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randy,</p>
<p>Thank you for your input- some good stuff- especially the C.S. Lewis quote.  I think that all of your warnings are helpful and legitimate as we look at Scripture.  </p>
<p>Here are a couple of cautions- not because I think you are falling into them but because I know the tendencies of my own heart.</p>
<p>In interacting with others in the body we must be careful of assuming.  </p>
<p>First, we must be careful of assuming legalism or wrong motives on the part of those who are abstaining.  Those who abstain and have concerns about alcohol often have motives of love for others and a desire to please and honor God.  While legalism is a real danger it is not inherent in the position of abstinence.  While we know this we need to remember it lest we fall into the error of judgmentalism.</p>
<p>Second, we must be careful of assuming that we are somehow better than those who haven&#8217;t gotten yet.  It is a fine line to walk in our hearts to hold to the truth and understand our Christan liberties even while not despising those who do not personally feel they can utilize their Christian liberties.  None of us have anything that we haven&#8217;t received and all that we have received has been received because of the grace of God.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Liberty and Alcohol by kevinrmartin</title>
		<link>http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4361</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinrmartin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.asgrace.org/blog/2007/08/08/christian-liberty-and-alcohol/#comment-4361</guid>
		<description>After the all church meeting last Sunday night I thought about something I have read several times in C.S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity. In Book 3, Chapter 2, Lewis wrote about the Cardinal Virtue of temperance (also referred to as moderation).  I believe that Lewis’s words have much to say to us today. I would encourage all to read them thoughtfully.    

Temperance is, unfortunately, one of those words that has changed its meaning.  It now usually means teetotalism.  But in the days when the second Cardinal virtue was christened “Temperance,” it meant nothing of the sort.  Temperance referred not specially to drink, but to all pleasures; and it meant not abstaining, but going the right length and no further.  It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotalers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion.  Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much or because he wants to give the money to the poor, or because he is with people who are inclined to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself.  But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something which he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying.  One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing himself without wanting every one else to give it up.  That is not the Christian way.  An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons—marriage, or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who do use them, he has taken the wrong turning.

One great piece of mischief has been done by the modern restriction of the word Temperance to the question of drink.  It helps people to forget that you can be just as intemperate about a lot of other things.  A man who makes his golf or his motorcycle the center of his life, or a woman who devotes all her thoughts to clothes or bridge or her dog, is being just as “intemperate” as someone who gets drunk every evening.  Of course, it does not show on the outside so easily: bridge-mania or golf-mania do not make you fall down in the middle of the road.  But God is not deceived by externals.  

* C.S. Lewis.  Mere Christianity.  The MacMillan Company.  New York, 1955.

Randy Martin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After the all church meeting last Sunday night I thought about something I have read several times in C.S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity. In Book 3, Chapter 2, Lewis wrote about the Cardinal Virtue of temperance (also referred to as moderation).  I believe that Lewis’s words have much to say to us today. I would encourage all to read them thoughtfully.    </p>
<p>Temperance is, unfortunately, one of those words that has changed its meaning.  It now usually means teetotalism.  But in the days when the second Cardinal virtue was christened “Temperance,” it meant nothing of the sort.  Temperance referred not specially to drink, but to all pleasures; and it meant not abstaining, but going the right length and no further.  It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotalers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion.  Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much or because he wants to give the money to the poor, or because he is with people who are inclined to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself.  But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something which he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying.  One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing himself without wanting every one else to give it up.  That is not the Christian way.  An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons—marriage, or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who do use them, he has taken the wrong turning.</p>
<p>One great piece of mischief has been done by the modern restriction of the word Temperance to the question of drink.  It helps people to forget that you can be just as intemperate about a lot of other things.  A man who makes his golf or his motorcycle the center of his life, or a woman who devotes all her thoughts to clothes or bridge or her dog, is being just as “intemperate” as someone who gets drunk every evening.  Of course, it does not show on the outside so easily: bridge-mania or golf-mania do not make you fall down in the middle of the road.  But God is not deceived by externals.  </p>
<p>* C.S. Lewis.  Mere Christianity.  The MacMillan Company.  New York, 1955.</p>
<p>Randy Martin</p>
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